Date: Thu Sep 09 1993 21:34:00 To: All Subj: Creationists Lies EVOLUTION
Date: Thu Sep 09 1993 21:34:00
From: Larry Sites
To: All
Subj: Creationists Lies
EVOLUTION -------------------------------
Today, Sept. 9, 1993, I, Larry Sites went to the Institute for Creation
Research, 10946 N. Woodside Av. Santee, Ca 92071 phone 619-448-0900 and
purchased the pamplet described below. It is listed in their current ICR
publications list on the page titled Scientific Case for Creation. I
verified that it contains all the lies listed below. I will send a copy of
the pages in question at my expense to anyone that requests it and provides
a mailing address. It is time that the ICR is known for the lies it spreads
under the guise of science. The rest of this post is from the FidoNet as
noted and appears to have orginated on the Internet. I have edited out
parts to reduce the size, but it clearly shows that the ICR's Duane Gish
knew in 1988 or earlier that there were significant errors, yet it still
has not been corrected. Most people would call that a lie. Are liers the
servants of God?
Message # 7961 Area : 62 EVOLUTION
From : Rob Fargher 07-10-93 06:33
To : Jack Brannan RE: 7960
Subj : 8/9 Dishonesty
Authors: Robert Zuber (zuber_rg@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu),
Chris Colby (colby@bu-bio.bu.edu),
Andy Peters (adpeters@sunflower.bio.indiana.edu),
Chris Stassen (stassen@alc.com)
Title: Various Examples of Verifiable Creationist Dishonesty
======================================================================
Read "Have You Been Brainwashed?" by Duane T. Gish, Ph. D.
In it, you will note claims of human and dinosaur footprints
together at the Paluxy River site. Also, note claims that the precambrian
is void of fossils. (See below for evidence that Gish, the author of
the pamphlet and very influential in the ICR, knew the latter claim to
be false as of 1985.)
=======================================================================
Below is a written transcript that I made from a videotape of the
Gish/Plimer debate in 1988. Plimer obtained a copy of the same
pamphlet, and hammered Gish for the inaccuracies in it.
=======================================================================
These are from the video tape of the March 18, 1988 debate between Ian
Plimer and Duane Gish. The debate took place in Australia.
When I am not sure of a word, it appears with a question mark
following. Editorial remarks are in [square brackets].
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Plimer's statement during his 45-minute debate speech:
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What I want to now talk about are some of our scientific publications
which come from our (?) creationists.
And I use our friend's book, or booklet -- it's more like a comic --
which is called "Are You Being Brainwashed?" [Plimer gets the title wrong,
I think] I go to page 8. There is a diagram there that says, "precambrian:
void of fossils." That is a lie. The precambrian is not void of fossils;
the precambrian is extremely rich in fossils. He [Gish] has come to the
country where there are many precambrian fossils going back to 3 thousand
3 hundred million years ago.
On the same diagram, he says the "earth's crust" is "void of fossils."
That is a lie. Every fossil found on this planet is from the earth's
crust. That is from his book, "Are You Being Brainwashed?" page 8.
We also see on the same page, the Cambrian; a geological time period
some time ago. And I quote, "The billions of fossils found are all of
highly complex forms of life." That is a lie. There on one simple
diagram we have three lies. That is their scientific publication.
We turn now to page 9. And we read, "not a single indisputable
multicellular fossil has been found anywhere in the world in a rock
supposedly older than Cambrian rocks." That is a lie.
So we've read two or three (?) pages and we've got ourselves four
lies. And we have an interesting situation here.
And continuing with page 9, "billions of highly complex animals...
just suddenly appear, with no signs of gradual development from lower
forms." That is a lie. So we now have 55 words and 5 lies. One lie
every 11 words in his publication.
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Gish's response during his 10-minute rebuttal period
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Now, furthermore, Dr. Plimer quoted from my book, or little "Brainwashed"
booklet, written 17 years ago. And at that time, according to Dr. Preston
Cloud,
one of the world's leading evolutionary geologists, there were no undoubted
precambrian fossils.
Now, since that time, as I described in my debate, there are many published
reports of micro-fossils in precambrian rocks. I discussed all of them in my
book, "Evolution: The Challenge of the Fossil Record," which was published
two years ago.
[Note here that Gish is saying that he *knows* now that there are
precambrian fossils, and that he has known it for at least a couple
of years.]
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Plimer's response during his 10(?)-minute rebuttal period
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This little book seems to have caused a little trouble with our friend.
It was written 17 years ago and he refuted it. Why is it I could buy it
outside, 20 minutes ago?
[And the ICR is *still* selling it without correction or disclaimer.
Gish got hammered for distributing the pamphlet in 1988. He admitted
that he knew no later than 1985 that some of the claims in it were
false. WHY IS THE ICR STILL SELLING IT?]
--- FMail 0.92
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