(20) Mon 29 Aug 94 12:02 Rcvd: Fri 2 Sep 12:19
By: David Rice
To: Fredric Rice
Re: Chicken Oath #1 of 4
St: Rcvd
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@EID:3122 1d1d6040
@PID: ProBoard 2.01 rSr
@TID: FastEcho 1.41/g 10280
with: Ryan Simpson
FR> You may also take a chicken oath. Or a burned paper oath. Or
FR> one of several other types of oaths which are equally bizzare.
FR> In the chicken oath one beheads a chicken -- it was allowed by
FR> the United States for Chinese rail workers to be questioned in
FR> court. In another you write down some works on paper and burn
FR> it up. There's one where you brea a dish.
FR>
FR> I kid you not. If you wish I can look up the chicken oath. I
FR> have posted the material in this forum twice and so perhaps
FR> Christopher Baker has it in his archives.
I haven't thought of The Chicken Oath in months! I'm sure that
Christopher Baker won't mind. . . .
PLIGHT OF THE PAGAN POLICEMAN, PART VI
by Kerr Cuhulain (Cult Watch Response, Vol 1, No 6)
The other day I went looking for a Sergeant to affirm the affidavit
on the back of an appearance notice that I'd issued to a party that
I'd arrested for theft. Very briefly, this involved plunking it down
in front of someone the rank of Sergeant or higher, taking an oath
on religious scripture (eg: Bible, Koran, etc.) or making an
affirmation (no scripture required). Being a Wiccan officer, I
affirm my affidavits. This practice is rather rare, since Wiccan
policemen are a rather rare commodity these days. Consequently, I
often find that if the NCO that I plunk my affidavit in front of
doesn't know me, he won't know the correct wording. So I have a copy
of the correct wording on the back of my appearance notice book and
a small contingency package for those special situations.
As luck would have it, the only Sergeant available then was one
newly assigned to our division and one who didn't know me. He'd
never had a Pagan officer plunk an appearance notice for affirmation
in front of him before. I therefore had to explain at length the
procedure and reassure him that this was not some practical joke.
Satisfied at last that this was a legal procedure under the Oaths
Act, he signed the affidavit. He did not ask me what my beliefs were
and I didn't volunteer the information. He then left the room.
Now while this was happening, a Corporal, also newly arrived, was
watching this procedure from across the roe of NCO's desks. As I
walked away with my completed affidavit he said, "Well! Can you beat
that! There ARE some agnostics in this department!"
I stopped to squint at him. "Meaning me?"
"Uh...yes."
"What makes you think that I'm an agnostic?"
"Well...uh...you don't believe in God."
--- ProBoard v2.01 [Reg]
* Origin: No Special Rights for Christians! (1:124/9005)
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SEEN-BY: 396/1 3615/50
@PATH: 124/9005 9023 1 396/1 280/1 209/720 102/2 851
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(21) Mon 29 Aug 94 12:02 Rcvd: Fri 2 Sep 12:20
By: David Rice
To: Fredric Rice
Re: Chicken Oath #2 of 4
St: Rcvd
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@EID:0222 1d1d6040
@PID: ProBoard 2.01 rSr
@TID: FastEcho 1.41/g 10280
PLIGHT OF THE PAGAN POLICEMAN, PART VI
by Kerr Cuhulain (Cult Watch Response, Vol 1, No 6)
---------------------------------------------------------------
I picked up the Websters dictionary on the Sergeants desk and,
flipping it open read the definition of agnostic to the Corporal:
"one who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is
unknown and probably unknowable." I then continued, "What makes you
think that I don't believe in something other than Jehovah?"
"Do you?"
"Yes."
The Corporal now had a puzzled expression on his face. He stammered,
"But...you must be an atheist. There isn't anything else."
I flipped to another page: "Atheism: `a disbelief in the existence
of deity.' There are plenty of other deities out there. What about
Buddhism, Islam, Sikhism...?"
"Oh, but those are false faiths."
"What's real then?"
The Corporal puffed himself up and adopted his best Sermon For The
Pulpit Posture. He then said: "I'm a Catholic. The source of our
problems is that people have turned away from the Bible. I believe
that the problems of the world today would all be solved if we did
what it tells us to do in the Bible."
"What about Lebanon?", I replied, "or Northern Ireland? You've got
different Christian sects running about saying, `My way or the
highway', and bumping each other off."
The Corporal had a condescending smile on his face as he replied:
"That's just the point! It says right in the Bible, `Thou shalt not
kill.'"
"It says in the next chapter to go into Canaan and kill everything
that you find there," I shot back.
"It does?"
"Yup."
I started to leave at this point, having reports to be written. He
was rapidly leafing through his Bible to see if I was right. I
grabbed some papers from my briefcase and started for the report
writing room door. He called after me: "Wait a minute. Do all of you
non-Christians use the affirmation thing?"
--- ProBoard v2.01 [Reg]
* Origin: No Special Rights for Christians! (1:124/9005)
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SEEN-BY: 209/209 720 770 270/101 280/1 10 25 35 74 333 378 385 500 290/627
SEEN-BY: 396/1 3615/50
@PATH: 124/9005 9023 1 396/1 280/1 209/720 102/2 851
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(22) Mon 29 Aug 94 12:03 Rcvd: Fri 2 Sep 12:21
By: David Rice
To: Fredric Rice
Re: Chicken Oath #3 of 4
St: Rcvd
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@EID:d323 1d1d6060
@PID: ProBoard 2.01 rSr
@TID: FastEcho 1.41/g 10280
PLIGHT OF THE PAGAN POLICEMAN, PART VI
by Kerr Cuhulain (Cult Watch Response, Vol 1, No 6)
---------------------------------------------------------------
"Nope. Some of us use the Chicken Oath."
"The =WHAT?="
"The Chicken Oath."
The Corporal was starting to turn purple. "This is a joke, right?"
I walked over to my briefcase and extracted some papers from my
contingency packet. These papers were excerpts from the British
Columbia Courts Operating Manual. These excerpts listed the
following real and legal oaths used by the occasional Oriental who
ends up on the witness stand in my province:
"7. CHINESE NON-CHRISTIAN OATHS:
"A) PAPER OATH (Civil)
"The witness writes his name on a piece of paper and takes the
following oath while burning the paper: `The evidence which you
shall give to the Court shall be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, or your soul shall be consumed by fire as is
this paper.'
"C) SAUCER OATH ( Civil and Criminal)
"The witness, on taking the stand, kneels down, and the Clerk places
in his hand a China saucer whereupon the witness breaks it against
the box. The Clerk then administers the following oath, `You shall
tell the truth, the whole truth; the saucer is cracked and if you do
not tell the truth, your soul will be cracked like the saucer.'
"D) CHICKEN OATH (Civil and Criminal):
"The witness is handed a piece of paper with the following writing:
`Oath made by (witness signs his name). Being a true witness, I
shall enjoy happiness and my sons and grandsons will prosper
forever. `If I give false evidence I shall die on the street, earth
will destroy me, and I shall forever suffer in adversity, and all my
offspring will be exterminated. In burning this Oath, I humbly
submit myself to the Will of Heaven which has brilliant eyes to see.
The _______year of the Reign of ______________ the day, the
_____________ Moon.' (witness signs his name.)
"The witness having signed his name twice, and a cock having been
procured, the Court (and Jury) adjourns to a convenient place
outside the building where the full ceremony of administering the
oath is performed. A block of wood, an axe or knife, not less than
three punk sticks, a pair of candles and Joss paper being obtained,
Chinese candles are stuck in the ground and lighted. The oath is
then read out loud by the witness, after which he wraps it in Joss
paper as used in religious ceremonies. The witness then lays the
cock on the block and chops its head off, then sets fire to the oath
from the candles and holds it until it is consumed."
--- ProBoard v2.01 [Reg]
* Origin: No Special Rights for Christians! (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 102/2 138 742 850 851 890 943 112/1 147/7 170/400 202/1 206/2708
SEEN-BY: 209/209 720 770 270/101 280/1 10 25 35 74 333 378 385 500 290/627
SEEN-BY: 396/1 3615/50
@PATH: 124/9005 9023 1 396/1 280/1 209/720 102/2 851
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(23) Mon 29 Aug 94 12:03 Rcvd: Fri 2 Sep 12:22
By: David Rice
To: Fredric Rice
Re: Chicken Oath #4 of 4
St: Rcvd
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@EID:6422 1d1d6060
@PID: ProBoard 2.01 rSr
@TID: FastEcho 1.41/g 10280
PLIGHT OF THE PAGAN POLICEMAN, PART VI
by Kerr Cuhulain (Cult Watch Response, Vol 1, No 6)
---------------------------------------------------------------
I've omitted the criminal version of the "paper oath" and a "candle
oath", but you get the point. The Corporal looked as if his world
was collapsing around his ears as he read this. I suppose that he
had imagined that the legal system was exclusively Christian and
that he was surrounded by Christian officers at work.
"This is real?"
"That's affirmative."
"Seriously?"
"No sh*t."
I started to leave again, but he called to me one last time. "Wait!
Wait! What do YOU believe in then?"
I paused in the doorway. "You really want to know?"
"Yes."
"Objective, professional and fair police work."
"No! No! I mean what do you BELIEVE in?"
"Oh that."
"Yes."
"Mom."
"Pardon?"
"Mom."
"Your Mother?"
"Nope. Ours."
"I don't understand," he said, a thousand yard stare on his face.
"You got that right," I said as I turned and left the room.
Fortunately, not all Catholics are as intolerant as this guy seems
to be. I wonder what he'll do some day if he makes Sergeant and
someone asks him to affirm an affidavit? Maybe they'll ask for a
Chicken Oath. That I'd like to see!
--- ProBoard v2.01 [Reg]
* Origin: No Special Rights for Christians! (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 102/2 138 742 850 851 890 943 112/1 147/7 170/400 202/1 206/2708
SEEN-BY: 209/209 720 770 270/101 280/1 10 25 35 74 333 378 385 500 290/627
SEEN-BY: 396/1 3615/50
@PATH: 124/9005 9023 1 396/1 280/1 209/720 102/2 851
