Subject: Scientologists pay me a visit! Date: Sat, 15 Apr 1995 01:25:07 GMT Two scientolog
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: grady@netcom.com (Grady Ward)
Subject: Scientologists pay me a visit!
Message-ID:
Organization: +1 707 826 7715 grady@netcom.com
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 1995 01:25:07 GMT
Two scientologists paid a visit to our house today in Arcata.
Ray and Jack Keras(?) identified themselves as Scientologists
to my wife who immediately asked them to leave the property.
Jack -- who had driven up from San Francisco did the talking
while Ray stayed out of sight around the corner of the house.
They stayed at the door and repeated that they wanted to talk
to me so I called 911.
It took about fifteen minutes for the police to arrive and
by that time the two scientologists left. [My wife first
saw Ray as he walked back to his car with Jack.]
(Each came in separate cars; the SF guy (Jack) came in a late
model dark green Honda; Ray left in a 70's El Camino.)
While I was making the report to Officer Bob Murphy, Ray
returned and talked to the officer for a few minutes
(I went back into the house at this time so as to
avoid being IDed by Ray). Ray turned out to be the local
airport manager.)
Since they didn't leave when asked I'm filing a misdemeanor
trespassing charge against them and, since they identified
themselves as from the Church of Scientology, I am filing
for a restraining order against the entire criminal cult
as soon as the the district attorney's office opens Monday.
I also got many high quality photos of both people and their
automobiles.
The local Officer Murphy was a little fuzzy about scientology
so I gave him a photocopy of the TIME article "Thriving Cult
of Greed and Power" to help educate him.
I'm flattered that some OSA guy would make the 5 hour auto
trip from SF to tell me about their criminal cult, but I'm
afraid a copy of the restraining order will take a lot
less time to be faxed and send via certified mail to Kobrin
and the other principals.
--
Grady Ward +1 707 826 7715 (voice / 24hr FAX) grady@netcom.com
----------------------
From: Chris Miller
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Scientologists pay me a visit!
Date: 15 Apr 1995 07:35:14 GMT
Organization: Lightside, Inc.
Lines: 122
Message-ID: <3mnsvi$kb9@covina.lightside.com>
References: <3mnmjk$p39@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM>
NNTP-Posting-Host: user41.lightside.com
wbarwell@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (William Barwell) wrote:
>
> In article , Grady Ward wrote:
> >Two scientologists paid a visit to our house today in Arcata.
> >Ray and Jack Keras(?) identified themselves as Scientologists
> >to my wife who immediately asked them to leave the property.
> >
> >Jack -- who had driven up from San Francisco did the talking
> >while Ray stayed out of sight around the corner of the house.
> >
> >They stayed at the door and repeated that they wanted to talk
> >to me so I called 911.
>
> I hope they take rejection well.
> Wonder what they wanted to spew about?
>
>
> >
> >It took about fifteen minutes for the police to arrive and
> >by that time the two scientologists left. [My wife first
> >saw Ray as he walked back to his car with Jack.]
> >
> >(Each came in separate cars; the SF guy (Jack) came in a late
> >model dark green Honda; Ray left in a 70's El Camino.)
> >
>
> It takes two big brave Stupidologists in two old cars to do these things?
>
> >While I was making the report to Officer Bob Murphy, Ray
> >returned and talked to the officer for a few minutes
> >(I went back into the house at this time so as to
> >avoid being IDed by Ray). Ray turned out to be the local
> >airport manager.)
> >
> Silly bozos.
>
>
> >Since they didn't leave when asked I'm filing a misdemeanor
> >trespassing charge against them and, since they identified
> >themselves as from the Church of Scientology, I am filing
> >for a restraining order against the entire criminal cult
> >as soon as the the district attorney's office opens Monday.
> >
> Good for you.
>
>
> >I also got many high quality photos of both people and their
> >automobiles.
> >
> >The local Officer Murphy was a little fuzzy about scientology
> >so I gave him a photocopy of the TIME article "Thriving Cult
> >of Greed and Power" to help educate him.
> >
> >
> >I'm flattered that some OSA guy would make the 5 hour auto
> >trip from SF to tell me about their criminal cult, but I'm
> >afraid a copy of the restraining order will take a lot
> >less time to be faxed and send via certified mail to Kobrin
> >and the other principals.
> >
>
I could not find Jack, but Ray was located in Arcata and I
asked him what happened. What follows is his version of what
occurred:
Jack, a Scientologist from San Francisco apparently wanted to
discuss matters connected with Internet with Grady Ward and to try and
clear the air with him. Jack looked up the names of Scientologists
in Arcata where Grady lives and found Ray, who has lived there for
many years. Jack asked Ray to accompany him to visit Grady to try
and calmly discuss the situation with him.
They went to Grady's house but were met with hostility from Mrs.
Ward who could not open the door nor would she get Grady to come to
the door so that Jack and Ray could talk with him. Ray and Jack let
Mrs. Ward know that they just wanted to talk.
Jack, who did the talking, identified himself to Mrs. Ward and
stated that he was a Scientologist who merely wanted to discuss the
Internet with Grady. She was still upset and said she was going to
call 911 for the police. She made this threat several times (still
without opening the door) while Jack tried to explain that he meant
them no harm and wished to talk. Ray and Jack were told by Mrs.
Ward to get off the property which they did.
Ray and Jack didn't know if they should wait for the police or
wait to see if Grady would finally come out so they waited on the
sidewalk. Grady never came out and the police didn't arrive, so
after about 10 minutes, they left.
Jack drove back to San Francisco.
Ray went back to Grady's street and saw Grady talking with a
police officer. Ray saw Grady motioning for Ray to come over, so
Ray stopped his car and went over to explain that he and Jack had
simply wanted to talk with Grady. Upon seeing Ray come over however,
Grady excitedly told the police officer that Ray had now identified
him and he dashed back into his house, leaving Ray and Mrs. Ward to
talk with the police officer.
Ray explained the situation to the police officer i.e. that he
had been asked by Jack, who he had just met, to accompany him to see
Grady so that he could rationally discuss the situation concerning
Internet with him. Ray left the police officer his business card and
that was about all that happened. The police officer was satisfied
that nothing untoward was happening and Mrs. Ward seemed to have
calmed down. Grady would not discuss the matter in person.
Ray assured me that he and Jack were going to see Grady to try
and improve relations with him.
I find it ludicrous that such a big advocate of the first amendment
like Grady would act like a scared rabbit and hide behind his wife
when someone comes to his door to have a rational discussion.
I have sent the police officer concerned a copy of What is Scientology
so that he can have the correct information on the Church.
Chris Miller
----------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: grady@netcom.com (Grady Ward)
Subject: Re: Scientologists pay me a visit!
Message-ID:
Organization: +1 707 826 7715 grady@netcom.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <3mnmjk$p39@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> <3mnsvi$kb9@covina.lightside.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 1995 15:23:24 GMT
Chris Miller (cmiller@covina.lightside.com) wrote:
: Jack, a Scientologist from San Francisco apparently wanted to
: discuss matters connected with Internet with Grady Ward and to try and
: clear the air with him. Jack looked up the names of Scientologists
So -- why didn't they *call* first? Or better, post to Usenet for
all to see?
: in Arcata where Grady lives and found Ray, who has lived there for
: many years. Jack asked Ray to accompany him to visit Grady to try
: and calmly discuss the situation with him.
Read: gather intelligence. Does Jack care to invite me to his OSA
hideout with my camera crew? I'm sure we can have a nice quiet
long talk.
: They went to Grady's house but were met with hostility from Mrs.
: Ward who could not open the door nor would she get Grady to come to
: the door so that Jack and Ray could talk with him. Ray and Jack let
: Mrs. Ward know that they just wanted to talk.
: Jack, who did the talking, identified himself to Mrs. Ward and
: stated that he was a Scientologist who merely wanted to discuss the
: Internet with Grady. She was still upset and said she was going to
She said "Leave the property or we will call the police." The
scientologists didn't leave, so I called the police. As Hubbard
would say "even a fool can understand that."
: call 911 for the police. She made this threat several times (still
: without opening the door) while Jack tried to explain that he meant
: them no harm and wished to talk. Ray and Jack were told by Mrs.
: Ward to get off the property which they did.
They finally sauntered off *after* I had to call the police because of
the trespass. Those scientologists committed a crime.
: Ray went back to Grady's street and saw Grady talking with a
: police officer. Ray saw Grady motioning for Ray to come over, so
I IDed the car and driver to Officer Murphy. I have no idea why Ray
came back. Bad move I'd say since we now have his positive ID.
: Ray stopped his car and went over to explain that he and Jack had
: simply wanted to talk with Grady. Upon seeing Ray come over however,
: Grady excitedly told the police officer that Ray had now identified
I want to deny the scientologists as intell as possible.
: him and he dashed back into his house, leaving Ray and Mrs. Ward to
: talk with the police officer.
: Ray explained the situation to the police officer i.e. that he
: had been asked by Jack, who he had just met, to accompany him to see
: Grady so that he could rationally discuss the situation concerning
: Internet with him. Ray left the police officer his business card and
Does Ray normally visit strangers at their home without an appointment?
And then commit the crime of trespass by not *immediately* leaving
the property when demanded? A very bad tactical error.
And who asked Jack to visit me? Is he an official criminal cult representative?
What is his last name and address? What is *your* name, address and
telephone number? The officer may want to talk to you.
: that was about all that happened. The police officer was satisfied
: that nothing untoward was happening and Mrs. Ward seemed to have
I have a case number that the officer wrote up describing the incident.
Members of the criminal cult will not get away with crimes in our
community.
: calmed down. Grady would not discuss the matter in person.
Denying intell. What part of "no" don't you understand?
I will be glad to visit a SF org with a camera crew. When's
our appointment?
: Ray assured me that he and Jack were going to see Grady to try
: and improve relations with him.
Yeah, right. What is both their full names and addresses and scientology
affiliation? What is yours?
:
: I find it ludicrous that such a big advocate of the first amendment
: like Grady would act like a scared rabbit and hide behind his wife
: when someone comes to his door to have a rational discussion.
OK. What is your address and phone number, Jack's full name, address,
phone number and scientology hat and org. Why did Jack and Ray not
leave when my wife demanded it?
If I am such a "scared rabbit", why would I offer to come *inside*
one of your criminal cult orgs to talk? When can I and my camera
crew come and talk things over in a rational way?
How about at *your* home? When can I come over? No appointment neccesary,
right?
And don't put down my wife. She is from the Bronx, educated at Stanford,
and knows shit when she smells it.
: I have sent the police officer concerned a copy of What is Scientology
: so that he can have the correct information on the Church.
I'm sure a criminal cult document will be held with the same weight
as TIME and the Los Angeles Times.
And there are a few more problems with Ray's story, but I'm not giving
you a chance to devise a lie to circumvent them at this point.
Bad move, bozos. Another big win for the criminal cult of scientology!
--
Grady Ward +1 707 826 7715 (voice / 24hr FAX) grady@netcom.com
--------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: grady@netcom.com (Grady Ward)
Subject: Re: Scientologists pay me a visit!
Message-ID:
Organization: +1 707 826 7715 grady@netcom.com
References: <3mnmjk$p39@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM>
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 1995 13:31:16 GMT
I speculate that the (OSA?) guy from SanFrancisco (Jack) was on
an intelligence gathering mission: what kind of person and house,
perimeter, apparent wealth, kind of family, obvious alarms or dogs,
how telephone service gets to house, etc etc etc.
You'd be surprised at the amount of stuff you can get in a
"routine" visit. I doubt the local criminal cult member, Ray,
had anything to do with the plan except act as backup to Jack.
I'll provide more details (case number, etc) as they become
available. I'm faxing the police station a couple of newspaper
articles (Los Angeles Times series part 6) to add to the TIME
article.
While I've briefed a few of my key neighbors (read: the "networked" ones)
I'll go around again with copies of the articles and my story
to back up my previous alert.
--
Grady Ward +1 707 826 7715 (voice / 24hr FAX) grady@netcom.com
-----------------------
From: Chris Miller
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Scientologists pay me a visit!
Date: 15 Apr 1995 15:56:27 GMT
Organization: Lightside, Inc.
Message-ID: <3moqbb$5ft@covina.lightside.com>
References: <3mnmjk$p39@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM>
grady@netcom.com (Grady Ward) wrote:
>
> I speculate that the (OSA?) guy from SanFrancisco (Jack) was on
> an intelligence gathering mission: what kind of person and house,
> perimeter, apparent wealth, kind of family, obvious alarms or dogs,
> how telephone service gets to house, etc etc etc.
What a joke. You paint everything, including an honest attempt to
meet with you in person without the vias of going through a computer,
as an "intelligence gathering mission". Don't you think that if
they wanted to gather intelligence, they would just hire some private
investigator rather than go and knock on your door?
I think you hide behind your computer too much and are seeing a false
picture of the world around you.
> You'd be surprised at the amount of stuff you can get in a
> "routine" visit. I doubt the local criminal cult member, Ray,
> had anything to do with the plan except act as backup to Jack.
>
And just what good would that do. I think it is clear what your
position is and what you are doing on the net. I don't think anyone
is stupid enough to think that finding out about your dog, your wife
and so on is going to change how you are acting. Perhaps meeting
someone live might get you to realize that Scientologists are also
individuals and not demons which you obviously are trying to make
them out to be. They are actually very friendly and are willing
to build understanding between people. You sit there behind your
computer scared to death, dreaming up things about people you have
never even met.
> I'll provide more details (case number, etc) as they become
> available. I'm faxing the police station a couple of newspaper
> articles (Los Angeles Times series part 6) to add to the TIME
> article.
>
Just more garbage that we will sort out with them. I don't suppose
the fact that Time Magazine and its author are being sued over the
libelous article which they printed has come to your attention has it?
You are good at the black PR.
> While I've briefed a few of my key neighbors (read: the "networked" ones)
> I'll go around again with copies of the articles and my story
> to back up my previous alert.
>
You can also go and build a castle and a big moat around it and never
come out. I think it would be advisable that you go outside and
take a look around.
Wake up and smell the coffee. There is a real world out there Grady
and it isn't the one you are looking at.
Chris
--------------
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: grady@netcom.com (Grady Ward)
Subject: Re: Scientologists pay me a visit!
Message-ID:
Organization: +1 707 826 7715 grady@netcom.com
References: <3mnmjk$p39@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> <3moqbb$5ft@covina.lightside.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 1995 23:49:27 GMT
Chris Miller (cmiller@covina.lightside.com) wrote:
: grady@netcom.com (Grady Ward) wrote:
: >
: > I speculate that the (OSA?) guy from SanFrancisco (Jack) was on
: > an intelligence gathering mission: what kind of person and house,
: > perimeter, apparent wealth, kind of family, obvious alarms or dogs,
: > how telephone service gets to house, etc etc etc.
: What a joke. You paint everything, including an honest attempt to
: meet with you in person without the vias of going through a computer,
What is your name, address, and phone number? Are you too cowardly to tell?
: And just what good would that do. I think it is clear what your
: position is and what you are doing on the net. I don't think anyone
: is stupid enough to think that finding out about your dog, your wife
: and so on is going to change how you are acting. Perhaps meeting
That is true. The criminal cult are psychopaths, but also fools.
However you may be good at gathering some kinds of data since
that doesn't require higher brain function.
: someone live might get you to realize that Scientologists are also
: individuals and not demons which you obviously are trying to make
: them out to be. They are actually very friendly and are willing
I am willing to come down and visit you and Jack at the org with my
video camera anytime you want. Why are so cowardly as to not reveal
your real name, address, and phone number? It is clear who the
coward is here "Chris Miller".
: to build understanding between people. You sit there behind your
: computer scared to death, dreaming up things about people you have
Scared to death? Hmmm... then tell me why I tell people my real name
address and phone number while you and "Jack" hide behind fake ids?
You are too cowardly to post your real name, address, and phone number.
: Just more garbage that we will sort out with them. I don't suppose
: the fact that Time Magazine and its author are being sued over the
Only four facts remain in contention out of hundreds of black facts
on the criminal cult of scientology. You are too cowardly to even
give your real name.
"Jack" was too afraid he'd get his butt kicked to attempt to trespass
on his own. He's obviously a coward too. We'll see how bravely "Jack"
trespasses after I get the restraining order. Then it will be a felony.
: You can also go and build a castle and a big moat around it and never
: come out. I think it would be advisable that you go outside and
Are you kidding? The criminal cult of scientology is just a warmup
for the real battle for us, which is the SB 652 (was 314) and others
of its ilk.
So -- you chicken-shit coward -- what is your real name, address,
and phone number?
--
Grady Ward +1 707 826 7715 (voice / 24hr FAX) grady@netcom.com
---------------
From: Chris Miller
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Scientologists pay me a visit!
Date: 17 Apr 1995 22:54:01 GMT
Organization: Lightside, Inc.
Message-ID: <3muri9$5ct@covina.lightside.com>
References: <3mqrlc$sq8@news1.shell>
hkhenson@shell.portal.com (H Keith Henson) wrote:
>
> Grady Ward (grady@netcom.com) wrote:
> : Two scientologists paid a visit to our house today in Arcata.
> : Ray and Jack Keras(?) identified themselves as Scientologists
> : to my wife who immediately asked them to leave the property.
>
> Grady, I wonder if that might have been *Jeff* Quiros, the dude
> I mentioned who came to the EFF meeting with Aron Mason of
> Freedom magazine? As I remember, sandy hair, 45-50 lined
> face. If you have a pix I might recognize him. Jeff was with
> the SF org, or so he said and clearly had an interest in the net
> though he did not say much at that meeting.
>
> Keith Henson
>
Grady and Keith,
I contacted the San Francisco Church and spoke with Jeff Quiros who
is the Director of Special Affairs there. He said that it was he who
had contacted Ray up in Arcata and had gone up to try and create some
dialogue with Grady. He did not know where the name "Jack" came up as
Jeff said that he told Mrs. Ward his name when he knocked at the door
attempting to speak with Grady. In asking Jeff why he had gone to
the trouble of driving all the way to Arcata, he said that he felt he
would have a much better chance of speaking with Grady if he could
get to meet with him face to face rather than over a phone or computer
line. He said that it is obvious that Grady is very upset and he
wanted to see if he could do something to sort it out. He felt that
in a phone call or on e-mail it is too easy just to start name calling
or what have you so he took the chance that he could get Grady to
speak with him in person. (He said it was not so bad as it was a
very nice drive up to Arcata.)
Jeff said that he is willing to have Grady come to San Francisco
to meet with him at the Church or at a restaurant or where ever. All
he wants to do is talk and if nothing can come of it, then at least
meeting each other may just give each other a better understanding
where each is stands.
He doesn't intend for it to be a mud slinging contest and wants to
keep it civil. Jeff does not post on ars although he has seen some
of the stuff here and knows the flavor of it.
So, if Grady wants to do anything with this, it is his choise.
Chris
------------------
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: grady@netcom.com (Grady Ward)
Subject: Re: Scientologists pay me a visit!
Message-ID:
Organization: +1 707 826 7715 grady@netcom.com
References: <3mqrlc$sq8@news1.shell> <3muri9$5ct@covina.lightside.com> <3mv8ps$d76@ankh.iia.org>
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 05:55:06 GMT
Ray couldn't remember "Jack's" name; they heard "Or I'll call the police"
several times but not "get off the property"; "Jack" didn't call because
he such a warm and loving human being that he wanted to fellate me in person.
Uh huh. Jeff Quiros called Officer Murphy today to try to explain why he had
to "handle" me (Dead Agenting stuff) but Officer Murphy had to explain what
"get off the property" means up here. Criminal cult members need to learn
some country manners.
The truth is that Keith and I nailed his *real* ID and "Jack" decided that
he'd better try to put some spin on the ball before a judge's order
comes a-hip-hopping across his criminal cult door.
And back to the issue of the criminal cult -- how exactly is Jeff Quiros,
Director of Special Affairs, going to stop SCAMIZDAT #4 from being
published?
It is so worrying to think that the criminal cult is going to be damaged
so severely by miscreants defecating on Hubbard's garbage. What can they do
to stop this outrage? Nothing? Why should anyone want to join an organization
so weak it can't even prevent its own holiest scriptures from being
repeatedly defiled in front of their and the whole laughing world's noses?
--
Grady Ward +1 707 826 7715 (voice / 24hr FAX) grady@netcom.com
E-Mail Fredric L. Rice / The Skeptic Tank
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