Skeptic Tank Text Archive File
From: eye@INTERLOG.COM(eye WEEKLY)
Subject: File 1--Holocaust revisionism goes up in flame wars
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eye WEEKLY November 10 1994
Toronto's arts newspaper .....free every Thursday
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EYE.NET EYE.NET
.SIG HEIL
Holocaust revisionism goes up in flame wars
by
K.K. CAMPBELL
It was 56 years ago today that Germans awoke to find the Nazis had
spent the night terrorizing Jews and destroying property in something
called "Crystal Night." It was a test-run pogrom for the Holocaust to
follow.
Once upon a time, net.news (the Internet's public discussion forums)
was swamped with flame wars about the Holocaust. They'd be found
anywhere -- in newsgroups like alt.conspiracy, soc.history,
soc.culture.canada, misc.headlines, alt.individualism etc.
One of the most persistent Nazi-apologists, Dan Gannon
(dgannon@banished.com), wildly spammed Holocaust-denying material,
either not understanding or not caring about netiquette -- that is, you
post appropriate material to appropriate groups. Thousands, from dozens
of newsgroups, complained. Gannon's posts were bad enough, but they
always brought rebuttal and endlessly repeated arguments.
Today, most of these debates are found in one newsgroup:
alt.revisionism -- dedicated to discussing "Holocaust revisionism," the
claim that the Nazi extermination of Jews and other distinct peoples is
a "hoax" exacted upon millions of unwary non-Jews.
Anti-racist and anti-fascist online activists continue to track Gannon
and his pals around the 9,000-odd newsgroups. One such hunter is
Canada's Ken McVay (kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca). McVay, 53, came to
Canada in 1967 from the U.S. and is now a Canadian citizen (holds dual
citizenship). He's Canada's foremost online anti-revisionist warrior.
I've been reading his stuff for years.
TRUE COLORS
"When I first got started on this, everyone was sort of out there on
their own," McVay told eye in a phone interview from his Vancouver
Island home. "Almost by accident, working groups started coordinating
their efforts." McVay works closely with Danny Keren (dzk@cs.brown.edu)
and Jamie McCarthy (k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu), among others.
The goal is not censorship. "I am absolutely, unequivocally opposed to
any kind of censorship," McVay says.
This is a real shift in McVay's thinking. I vividly recall reading
McVay his posts from about two years ago, where he'd vehemently defend
Canadian anti-hate speech laws.
"I don't anymore. I think it's the biggest possible mistake." What
changed his mind? "Dealing with these guys on a daily basis for over
two years. Seeing how easy it is to shoot them down. And it is. The
most intellectual among them are stupid and completely inept when it
comes to historical research. And, of course, they are liars. That
being the case, why on Earth would anyone want to shut them up or force
them underground? I want to know who I'm dealing with. I want to know
where they are. And I want to know how their minds work."
To see their true colors, McVay and compatriots badger and prod
revisionists until they drop the scholarly pretense by, say, calling
McVay a "Jew-lover" or complaining Hitler unfortunately missed the
parents of some Jewish netter. It happens regularly.
"These online discussions are not aimed at getting Gannon and his pals
to change their minds," McVay says. "That ain't gonna happen. It's to
reach the rest - - such as the new users that pop up every September in
universities and stumble on this stuff. Many don't know how Nazis
operate. Most racists don't go around with a little patch on their
shoulder proclaiming: `I hate Jews, or blacks, or natives.' But it's
there. We work to bring it out in the open."
A.R. AS TESTING GROUND
McVay and company are working on putting together a book, a primer on
Holocaust-denial techniques. (He hasn't approached a publisher yet.)
You often see the results of this ongoing research in alt.revisionism .
McVay chuckles about having rabid anti-Semites ever at hand to help
write it.
"We throw out a chapter when we think it's done, content-wise. If the
revisionists ignore it completely, then we know it's finished. If they
respond, we say, `Ah! We missed that trick, calling a maple tree a
Porsche.' So we add that argument in." A month later, they upload the
chapter again.
McVay says the "classic" revisionist tactic is misrepresentation of
text. Outright lies.
"They'll cite a historical text: `K.K. Campbell says on page 82 of his
famous book that nobody died at Auschwitz.' Then you go to the Library
of Congress and look up K.K. Campbell, page 82, and what you find he
really said was, `It was a nice day at Dachau.' They get away with this
because they know goddamn well most people don't have time to rush off
to the Library of Congress. But people read that and say to themselves,
`Who would lie about such a thing when it's so easy to prove them
wrong? They must be telling the truth.' "
The years of refutation have resulted in anti-revisionists transcribing
mass amounts of death camp evidence and testimony into computer text
files. McVay saved them. Soon netters requested the material. It began
to take up so much time, he automated the process. You send an email
request, the computer sends you back the file(s).
The archive is now maybe 60 megs and may swell to over a gig in 1995.
Write email to ADDRESS TK with the message GET HOLOCAUST/INDEX --
you'll be sent a huge index of Holocaust files (other files, too, on
fascist racist-right groups). If you like the convenience of gopher,
check out jerusalem1.datasrv.co.il .
Revisionists often assert McVay secretly gets operating funds from
Jews.
"I don't," McVay says. "The hard-drives are spread out on a table with
a Canadian Tire fan blowing right at them. I can't afford to replace
things, if it breaks, it's gone. However, I'm upfront -- if I get
support money, I'll take it, Jewish or not. The fact that a Jewish
organization would offer several grand to help wouldn't change the
value of the historical data." He'd like to put it all on CD-ROM.
"The Internet has to be a revisionist's worst communications
nightmare," McVay says. "They can't ignore it, because, as you and I
know, in 10-15 years everyone in North America is going to read stuff
through the Internet.
"And that's the beauty of the Internet: once it's refuted in an honest
and academic fashion, you can't run away from it," McVay says.
When the latest revisionist recruit charges in with the same old
pamphlets, it's almost effortless for anyone to request a file and
reply: "We covered this two years ago. Here is the massive refutation
of that so-called scholarly report."
It's there. For everyone. Forever.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Retransmit freely in cyberspace Author holds standard copyright
Full issues of eye in archive gopher://interlog.com
Coupla Mailing lists available http://www.interlog.com/eye
eye@interlog.com "Break the Gutenberg Lock..." 416-971-8421
------------------------------
From: eye@INTERLOG.COM(eye WEEKLY)
Subject: File 2--Addition to alt.revisionism story
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 00:10:25 -0500
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eye WEEKLY November 17 1994
Toronto's arts newspaper .....free every Thursday
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EYE.NET EYE.NET
RANKING THE ALT.REVISIONISTS
by
K.K. CAMPBELL
Last week, eye Net focused on Ken McVay, battle-hardened
anti-revisionist warrior against net.Nazis and holocaust deniers alike
who cruise the net.
McVay and cohorts endeavor to demonstrate that under every single
Holocaust denier you find an anti-Semite/racist/fascist -- no matter
how "scholarly" a front may be presented.
Newsgroup alt.revisionism has housed a changing cast of Holocaust
deniers over the years. To help guide the newcomer through the raging
flame wars, eye presents the current crew rated for denial motivations
and cyberspace posting style.
eye surveyed two dozen contributors who wage war with Holocaust deniers
on a regular or semi-regular basis. While some polled were inclined to
just give all revisionists 1 in smarts, it was understood this wouldn't
be very useful to newcomers. More importantly, if all rated 1, then
it's impossible to measure the intelligence of Tim McCarthy.
This chart will be posted permanently in eye's online Web site --
http://www.interlog.com/eye/Misc/Alt.revisionism/Rev.html . The chart
can be updated, ratings recalculated, as new net.nazis and kin wander
in. Useful tool for a.r newcomers.
(McVay suggests eye add a new category -- the BSI or Berg Spittle
Index. Using Friedrich Berg as a perfect 10 in spluttering vitriol, he
says Gannon would come in at 9.9 and Hoffman at 7.5. These are, of
course, but the most preliminary of ratings...)
TOP TEN NET.HOLOCAUST-DENIERS
| A | B | C | D || E | F | G | H |
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Friedrich Berg | 7 | 9 | 9 | 9 || 5 | 7 | 3 | 5 |
(bergf@iia.org)
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Dan Gannon | 7 | 8 | 7 | 9 || 2 | 4 | 4 | 3 |
(dgannon@banished.com)
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Michael A Hoffman | 7 | 8 | 8 | 8 || 4 | 4 | 4 | 3 |
(hoffman2nd@delphi.com)
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Milton Kleim | 9 | 9 |10a| 9 || 4 | 7 | 3 | 2 |
(hermann@tigger.stcloud.msus.edu)
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Tim McCarthy | 9 | 9 | 8 |10 || 1b| 3 | 1 | 1 |
(landpost@clark.net)
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? | 7 | 8 | 8 | 9 || 2 | 3 | 2 | 1 |
(murungu@delphi.com)
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Greg Raven | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 || 5 | 8 | 8 | 4 |
(greg.ihr@kaiwan.com)
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Rick Savage | 9 |10 | 8 | 9 || 2 | 2 | 2 | 1 |
(rsavage@netcom.com)
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Bradley R. Smith | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 || 6 | 7 | 7 | 4 |
(bradleyrs@aol.com)
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Ross Vicksell | 3 | 4 | 5 | 5 || 6 | 7 | 8 | 3 |
(codfish@netcom.com)
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Ratings are from 1-10 --10 high. (All rounded to nearest whole number.)
MOTIVATIONAL TRAITS
A = RACISM (10 = Christian Identity; 1 = indifferent)
B = ANTI-SEMITISM (10 = pure visceral hate; 1 = dispassionate)
C = FASCISM/NAZISM (10 = Sieg Heil; 1 = politically clueless)
D = CONSPIRACISM (10 = "I have PROOF Jew-controlled Robot
Icebergs sank the Titanic!!!!!!"; 1 = ya right, like any of them
are 1s)
PERSONAL TRAITS
E = INTELLIGENCE (10 = snort, as if; 1 = "Bend over?! Jawohl, Mein
Fuhrer!!!")
F = COMPOSITION (10 = properly formatted paragraphs; 1 = forget
computers, yet to master holding pencil)
G = CIVILITY (10 = courteous; 1 = "FUKKK YOUU JOOOO!!!!111")
H = ACADEMIC RESOURCES (10 = constant citations; 1 = "My dad told
me that ...")
NOTES
a = Kleim rated 10 from all respondents; only one to achieve a perfect
score in any category.
b = McCarthy only person to receive several ZERO ratings for
intelligence; these registered as 1 in computation.
KILL (FILE) THE NAZIS
Deborah Lipstadt argues in her recent book Denying The Holocaust
(Penguin, $13.99, paper) that anti-revisionists should not just yell,
but should refute revisionists --and then ridicule will issue forth
from that. This is particularly relevant to cyberspace, which has no
"central office."
Netters who simply don't wanna see net.Nazi shit can use the all-
important kill files. You'll find a copy of the Kill File FAQ
(Frequently Asked Questions) in eye archives to help explain to you how
to use them. (Use gopher or Web and look in eye's Miscellaneous
directory.)
A kill file "tells" your news reader (the software that organizes all
those net.news/Usenet posts) to filter out specific articles. You can
kill all posts coming from a particular person, or a particular site,
or on a particular subject.
To help you ascertain which net.personalities are common kill file
bait, eye introduces its series of KILL FILE TRADING CARDS! Instant
collector's item! Trade with friends! Collect the set!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Retransmit freely in cyberspace Author holds standard copyright
Issues of eye in archive gopher://interlog.com
Coupla Mailing lists available http://www.interlog.com/eye
eye@interlog.com "Break the Gutenberg Lock..." 416-971-8421
E-Mail Fredric L. Rice / The Skeptic Tank