This is some more of various threads from the CULT WATCH and MAGICKNET conferences. Within
This is some more of various threads from the CULT WATCH and MAGICKNET
conferences. Within is the beginning of the persecution that CULT
WATCH's moderator, Matthew Dunham, has perpetrated on Rowan Moonstone.
It's a sad tale, but one that bears repeating because there are a lot
of Matt Dunhams around.
Walk in beauty....Michelle Klein-Hass, compiler of the X-Hate series
Msg#: 955 *BULLETIN BOARD*
06/18/88 23:15:00 (Read 5 Times)
From: MATTHEW DUNHAM
To: NEW BBS'S
Subj: WELCOME
Welcome to you new BBS's that are now carrying this Echo!!! As you will notice
the conversation goes in spurts. Presently we are discussing several
religions..... Mormonism, Baha'i ism, Goddess-ism. We have active
participants from Texas, California, Wisconsin, Indianna, as well as other
Cities here in Oklahoma. We even have a Witch participating on occassion by
the name of Rowan Moonstone.
This is a very young echo but is rapidly getting bigger by the day.
Please do not hesitate to introduce yourself to everyone and take an active
role in the discussions. You are NOT butting in when you join a conversation!
So jump right in you all!!!
We here at ROCK ISLAND (on) LINE intend to defend the word of God to the best
of our ability.
Right now there are no rules.... I hope to be able to continue this practice!!
Please do not tollerate vague or intended foul language. If everyone will be
sure to send the guilty party a note, I am sure they will quit (one way or the
other).... but other than that, as long as there is no obvious repeat Flames
from an individual there are no rules.... I reserve the right to make rules as
the need arises. Police yourselves and there will be no more rules... ok? :)
Also we are starting a `Smiley face contest' you know :) well here is my
entry \|;-<0) Winking Frenchman with Nothing to say!
Winner gets (drum role please ##################@^!)
An all expense paid trip to their own backyard for a drink from the hose on a
hot day!
Please come back!!
I bid you all Peace & Completeness!
Shalom,
....matthew
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: Rock Island (on) Line - Newalla, Ok.- (405)391-9488 (1:147/3)
Please do not hesitate to introduce yourself to everyone and take an active
role in the discussions. You are NOT butting in when you join a conversation!
So jump right in you all!!!
I and some of my local users have been Defending the Gospel, ALONE, for Quit
Some time Now.
WE ARE BECOMMING OUTNUMBERED BY THE CULTISTS! PLEASE COME TO CHRIST'S AID!
....matthew
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: Rock Island (on) Line - Newalla, Ok.- (405)391-9488 (1:147/3)
Msg#: 1302 *BULLETIN BOARD*
07/07/88 15:52:00 (Read 3 Times)
From: BRAD HICKS
To: MATTHEW DUNHAM
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1201 (RE: WELCOME)
MD> Goddess-ism
"Goddess-ism" isn't a word. "Goddess-worship" might be, but it's inadequate
and inaccurate. Try "Paganism," or if you want to get your facts exactly
straight, "Neopaganism" or "Neopagan Wicca" or "Neopagan Witchcraft."
MD> We even have a Witch participating on occassion by
MD> the name of Rowan Moonstone.
Addendum: at least =two= Witches. And thank you for capitalizing the word!
MD> WE ARE BECOMMING OUTNUMBERED BY THE CULTISTS!
Has it occurred to you yet that the people you are labelling "cultists" have
more to fear from you than you do from them? This country's developing a
lynch-mob atmosphere about non-Christian religion, that feels a lot like
McCarthyism.
--- Sirius 0.50
* Origin: WeirdBase * St. Louis * 1-314-741-2231 * (Opus 1:100/523)
Msg#: 1311 *BULLETIN BOARD*
07/09/88 08:26:00 (Read 4 Times)
From: MATTHEW DUNHAM
To: BRAD HICKS
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1302 (RE: WELCOME)
> MD> Goddess-ism
>
> "Goddess-ism" isn't a word. "Goddess-worship" might be,
> but it's inadequate and inaccurate. Try "Paganism," or if
> you want to get your facts exactly straight, "Neopaganism"
> or "Neopagan Wicca" or "Neopagan Witchcraft."
>
> MD> We even have a Witch participating on occassion by
> MD> the name of Rowan Moonstone.
>
> Addendum: at least =two= Witches. And thank you for
> capitalizing the word!
>
> MD> WE ARE BECOMMING OUTNUMBERED BY THE CULTISTS!
>
> Has it occurred to you yet that the people you are
> labelling "cultists" have more to fear from you than you do
> from them? This country's developing a lynch-mob
> atmosphere about non-Christian religion, that feels a lot
> like McCarthyism.
Well, It looks like we have found you rather defensive today, havn't we. I
wonder why that is? What is it exactly you have to fear from me or others like
me? I Havn't been over to your house Burning Crosses in your front yard this
week!
This echo is here to show those interested that there really are witches, as
well as all of the manifestations of satan and the dark side of religion. Thank
you for proving my point. We are here on this echo to help YOU see the errors
of your beliefs so you can enherit eternal life with us in Christ instead of
burning for eternity in Hell. Of course it is still your choice.
....matthew
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: Rock Island (on) Line - Newalla, Ok.- (405)391-9488 (1:147/3)
Msg#: 2018 *BULLETIN BOARD*
07/07/88 16:09:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: BRAD HICKS
To: MATTHEW DUNHAM
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1870 (RE: 22)
> 2. Non-Christian Cult defined:
I don't want to pick a fight, but remember, I am interested in seeing where you
get your "facts" from. May I hold you to the definition you gave of "cult"?
If so, I can demonstrate with zero effort that Neopagan Wicca is NOT a cult.
Now, keep in mind that as stated, a Non-Christian Cult has =all= of these
characteristics. If this is so, I can demonstrate that =any one= of them does
not apply to Neopagan Wicca, then you may not call Neopagan Wicca a
Non-Christian Cult -- by your own definitions. In fact, I will demonstrate
that =none= of these characterizations apply to Neopagan Wicca.
> a. They adhere to MAJOR doctrines which are pointedly
> contradictory to orthodox Christianity, while claiming origins or
> harmony with Christianity.
Half fact, half falsehood. It is quite true that the "MAJOR doctrines" (such
as there are any) of Neopagan Wicca are at least apparently contradictory to
"orthodox Christianity" (whatever that may be). However, you will go all your
life without finding a single Neopagan Witch who claims that we have Christian
origins - and at =best=, =some= Christians may be in "harmony" with us, where
matters such as survival for the whole human species dictate common-sense. If
we wanted to be Christians, we'd be Christians.
> b. They are always built, not on what the Bible teaches, but
> upon what the FOUNDER(S) of the cult say the Bible teaches and
> they thrive on ignorance and uncertainity.
Well, this one's a hard one to test because Witchcraft has its ultimate origin
about 10,000 years before the invention of written language. Ignorance?
Uncertainty? Wanna compare the scholarship of any ten Christians chosen at
random with the average coven, in terms of total education or religious
education (take your pick)? And Neopagan Witchcraft is not based on what
=anyone= says the Bible teaches, but on theories that can be validated by
simple experiment.
> c. They use Bible quotations out of context. (example: They
> quote the Bible as saying it is OKAY to disobey God - but neglect
> to point out that this is a direct quote from SATAN that was
> printed in the Bible.
Trivially disposed of. Neopagan Witches don't quote the Christian Bible for
any meaningful purpose, as we don't accept it as an ultimate authority.
> 1. THEY PROFESS TO HAVE THE ONLY TRUE CHURCH DOCTRINE
> b. Do they claim that "Truth is Everywhere and ALL religions
> seek after truth!"
I have yet to find a Neopagan Witch who talked about Ultimate Truth (let alone
any kind of "Church Doctrine"). Neopagan Witchcraft is not a set of beliefs,
it's a practice. It is defined not by any set of doctrines, but by myths
(which need not be believed) and by rituals. (My own "denomination" - we say
"tradition" - of Discordianism teaches that capital-T "Truth" is probably not
understandable or visible to creatures who filter their inputs through their
preconceptions, like human beings.)
> 2. THEY STEAL MEMBERS FROM OTHER CHRISTIAN CHURCHES
> a. Whom do they seek to convert?
> People on skid row?
> The natives of Java?
Sounds like every form of Christianity I know - but Neopagans don't proseltyze,
PERIOD. In fact, it's rather a difficult challenge to find a coven that will
accept you, one that involves years of study and research and yes, hard work
before any coven will acknowledge that you even exist. Seek to convert? Don't
make me laugh; most of us wouldn't want the vast ignorant majority of mankind
inside our Circles.
> 3. THEY ADD THEIR OWN REVELATIONS TO THOSE OF THE
> BIBLE AND/OR SCRIPTURES
See above.
> 4. THEY DO ALL OF YOUR THINKING FOR YOU
On the contrary, we =require= our own to think, and challenge them to defend
their beliefs any time they put them forth. Not even our loftiest media stars,
people like Margot Adler or Isaac Bonewits or Starhawk, are immune to
questioning. (In fact, you'll be hard-pressed to find a Witch who agrees with
100% of what =anyone= in the Craft says. If you find two people in the Craft
who agree on more than 50%, you've found a remarkable thing!)
> 5. THEY BELIEVE IN SALVATION BY GRACE
> -= PLUS =-
Witches don't in general believe in damnation, so we don't believe in
"salvation" by =anything=. Most of us believe that our OWN harmful actions
invoke "negative karma" (I'll join with the growing crowd who prefer to throw
out Hindu mysticism and just use the word "consequences"), so perhaps there is
something in this life that you might need "salvation" from, if you're an
axe-murderer or some such. However, the vast majority of us believe that
=that= kind of salvation is impossible, that you =always= experience the
results of your actions (helpful =and= harmful) -- three-fold.
> 6. WHAT CHARACTERISTICS OF THEIRS DO THEY "SELL"?
See above under "proseltyzing." We don't "sell" anything.
> 7. HOPSCOTCH THROUGH THE BIBLE
See above under "Bible." Why would we bother?
> 8. THEY CHANGE THE DEFINITIONS OF WORDS
You have a specific accusation?
> 9. THEY HAVE "ANOTHER Jesus"
We have no "Jesus" in the sense that you do - except to note that in actual
mythological terms, Jesus is just another dead-and-risen agriculture deity, and
not very remarkable as such. Had the Christian Mysteries not enlisted military
aid and suppressed all other faiths, doubtless now we'd have Bible thumpers
telling us that Dionysus Saves. I would pursue this argument farther, but I
promised not to argue against Christianity. Accept for now that Neopagan
Witches would flee en masse from even the suggestion that we needed "ANY
Jesus."
> 10. FINAL AND 'SADDEST' OF ALL TRAITS
> The saddest of all the traits that can signal a CULT is the
> OTHER JESUS doctrine.
See above.
So you see, by your own definition, Neopagan Witchcraft is =NOT= a cult. Now
for the real surprise -- that's also exactly what the largest anti-cult
Christian ministry in the United States, the Spiritual Counterfeits Project,
says about us. Why not give them a call and check for yourself?
-More-
--- Sirius 0.50
* Origin: WeirdBase * St. Louis * 1-314-741-2231 * (Opus 1:100/523)
Msg#: 2069 *BULLETIN BOARD*
07/09/88 10:49:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: JACK DECKER
To: MATTHEW DUNHAM
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2018 (RE: 22)
Matthew,
In your "Introduction to the Cults", you cite as one of the traits of a cult...
> 2. THEY STEAL MEMBERS FROM OTHER CHRISTIAN CHURCHES
>
> a. Whom do they seek to convert?
>
> People on skid row?
>
> The natives of Java?
>
>
> If you find them in established religious areas populated
> with Baptists or any other Christian members then they are
> proslytizing and the Bible condemns this practice.
>
First of all, where does the Bible condemn this practice? That's a new one on
me.
Second, I think that the above definition is overly-broad. The reason is that
some good, Christian churches (including the Baptists!) go door-to-door in
communities throughout the United States attempting to share the Gospel. I have
had Baptists call at my door and when they found that we were attending another
church, we generally had a few moments of Christian fellowship and then they
departed. A cult member (and we get those, too) in the same situation will
almost always press on in an attempt to convert me to their faith. And I think
that is exactly the point you are trying to make.
BUT... suppose that you were out doing door-to-door calling (or street
witnessing) and you come across someone who a) attends church, b) professess
to be a Christian, but c) that person's actions give rise to serious doubts in
your mind that he truly is converted (perhaps he or she uses constant
profanity, or is often drunk or high on drugs or something like that) and d)
you know that the church they are attending preaches a "social gospel" and
hasn't had a salvation message or altar call in 20 years.
Now do you try and get this person saved and into a Bible-believing church?
That would be "proslytizing" according to the strict interpretation of the
quoted portion of text, yet I'm sure that most Christians under these
circumstances might consider inviting this person to receive Christ and to
start attending another church where the Gospel of Christ is preached.
See the problem? I know what you are trying to say but under the definition as
given above, the actions of many true Christian churches could be considered
"cultish".
The remainder of the file was very good, though!
Jack
--- ConfMail V3.31
* Origin: Northern Bytes BBS (Private Node via 154/7) (1:154/8)
Msg#: 2074 *BULLETIN BOARD*
07/11/88 22:57:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: MATTHEW DUNHAM
To: JACK DECKER
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2069 (RE: 22)
> In your "Introduction to the Cults", you cite as one of the
> traits of a cult...
Dear Jack,
Thank You for Participating!!
I totally agree with your observations...
In an effort to get some discussion and interest in this echo, I have posted
several messages that I did not create. I am one who is interested in reactions
to these files.
Hope to see you enter into some of the other discussions as well.
....matthew
Msg#: 2038 *BULLETIN BOARD*
07/09/88 14:03:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: MATT HART
To: MATTHEW DUNHAM
Subj: 2
Unless one interprets the bible literally in the places where it is meant to be
taken so, one can produce all kinds of allegorical meanings such as this
cultist is.
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: Rock Island (on) Line - Newalla, Ok.- (405)391-9488 (1:147/3)
Msg#: 1329 *BULLETIN BOARD*
07/09/88 18:46:00 (Read 3 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: MATTHEW DUNHAM
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1311 (RE: WELCOME)
The "dark side of religion" has little to nothing to do with Wicca. We are a
CELEBRATION of life and of the seasons and times of year. We have nothing to do
with fear, darkness, or death, save in the context that these are things that
happen in everyone's lives. Why can you not accept the fact that we are no
threat to you? BB Rowan
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: Rock Island (on) Line - Newalla, Ok.- (405)391-9488 (1:147/3)
Msg#: 1334 *BULLETIN BOARD*
07/09/88 21:17:00 (Read 3 Times)
From: MATTHEW DUNHAM
To: ROWAN MOONSTONE
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1329 (RE: WELCOME)
> The "dark side of religion" has little to nothing to do
> with Wicca. We are a CELEBRATION of life and of the seasons
> and times of year. We have nothing to do with fear,
> darkness, or death, save in the context that these are
> things that happen in everyone's lives. Why can you not
> accept the fact that we are no threat to you? BB Rowan
You claim Wicca, is the oldest religion on earth. Your religion does not accept
Jesus Christ as the Messiah, nor do you have any reverance for God or His Word.
You disount it as just another off shoot from some `original religion' you seem
to believe, just as all the religions seem to mirror some of your beliefs.
I never stated I believed you were a `threat' to me! You and those like you
have chosen to participate in this echo, to what end I am not sure. I do know
that if you do not believe in God and His only begotten Son Jesus, you are very
counterproductive, and therefor must have satanic inspiration, even though you
do not acknowlege direct allegence with satan. Satan, knowing Truth as does
Christ, is in competition for your soul. If he can get you to believe that God
is Not and His Son is not to be acknowledged as Savior, he has won a great
victory. I may never sway you from your beliefs but, If I can keep one
individual from joinning your ranks, I will have been a Good Steward of the
Gospel I know to be Truth.
....matthew
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: Rock Island (on) Line - Newalla, Ok.- (405)391-9488 (1:147/3)
Msg#: 1339 *BULLETIN BOARD*
07/10/88 17:02:00 (Read 3 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: MATTHEW DUNHAM
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1334 (RE: WELCOME)
I disagree with your statement that I have no reverence for God. Just because
my concept of God is not the same as yours, does NOT mean that
I have no reverence for God/dess. I have the greatest reverence for the Deity,
whatever anyone may choose to name that deity. Why do yoiu think that anyone
who is not a born again Christian has no reverence for deity? This doesn't make
a lot of sense to me.
I have chosen to participate here so that people will know that Witches are NOT
the Satanic baby killers that many of the Christian resources believe us to be.
I am NOT trying to proselytize at all. I'm simply here to further understanding
between people of different religions. I have no interest in converting people.
If Wicca is right for them, they will find it in their own and the Gods good
time. If it isn't, they don't belong with us at all. As a matter of fact, one
of my former Coven brothers has decided that he reallyis happier in
Christianity than in the Craft. I'm glad he has found the right path for him.
We're still good friends.
I think that in a way, the Christians pose a very real "threat" to Neopagans
because of their unwillingness to let us believe and practice as we see fit.
This right, incidentally , is guaranteed in the Constitution. I've had friends
attacked, verbally and physically by well meaning people who were doing
things"for their own good". I am concerned that unrefuted accusations of
Witches being Satanists will possibly result in a hysterical reaction,
particularly with all the scare stories making the rounds about Satanic baby
killers. All I'm trying to do is to let people see that Witches are no threat
to them. Nothing more, and certainly nothing less. BB Rowan
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: Rock Island (on) Line - Newalla, Ok.- (405)391-9488 (1:147/3)
Msg#: 2059 *BULLETIN BOARD*
07/10/88 17:09:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: MATTHEW DUNHAM
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2058 (RE: WELCOME)
Forgive me if I misinterpreted, but I thought you were worried about the rest
of us when you made the statement that the Christians were outnumbered by the
"cultists" here and you needed help in the form of more participation of
Christians. Sorry if I misunderstood. BB Rowan
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: Rock Island (on) Line - Newalla, Ok.- (405)391-9488 (1:147/3)
Msg#: 1406 *BULLETIN BOARD*
07/13/88 11:40:05 (Read 4 Times)
From: MICHELLE HASS
To: BRAD HICKS
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1302 (RE: WELCOME)
Brad, this message is intended for Matthew, so bear with me...and I hope that
Matthew the "Witchfinder General" reads this, and reads it well. Matt, I am
angered, but not shocked, by your bigotry. It seems like the Fundie
stock-in-trade. You may not believe that the God/ess of the Pagan traditions
of the world is anything more than a false god. Do not quote me your biblical
references, for since I do not believe the paradigm of Christianity, nor do I
accept its scripture, I would not consider that an authority. What the issue
is is not "false gods" but this: Do we as Pagani have the right to worship as
we choose in this free country, the United States of America? Or is this a
"Christian nation", and therefore, not only Pagani but Buddhists, Muslims,
Hindus(and yes, there are many in the Greater LA area who were BORN into that
belief, especially in Culver City and Mar Vista) Shintoists, Sikhs, Non-Fundie
Protestants, and Catholics, not to mention JEWS, have no right to practice the
religion of either their Fathers or their Conscience, and should renounce them
or be persecuted. I have been very busy compiling a series of archives, known
as the XIANHATE series. I have THREE very overstuffed archives already out,
and with the captured threads and the further material I have gotten from both
"Born-Again" and "Pagan" boards alike, it seems like the FOURTH will be on the
way very soon. Do I do this to undermine Christianity? By all means no! I do
this to make people aware that there is a great deal of bigotry out there, and
that if one values their First-amendment right of freedom of worship, that they
should prepare for persecution. I would deny that right only if the
organization practiced Jonestown-style brainwashing (and I know no Pagan group
that does, we're too independent-mi nded for that) or if it practiced human
sacrifice. There are mentally disturbed people who claim to be Satanists, and
perhaps do that sort of thing. But they are not Pagani, they are (if anything)
Christian heretics, and are violating federal law when they do it. I, myself,
do not even sacrifice ants or bugs to my God/ess, and in fact most traditions
condemn even animal sacrifice. Your attitude against any belief system which
is not the absolute same as yours is appaling. This country was started by a
Freemason (Washington) Atheists (The Adamses) and a few sundry Pantheistic
Deists (Jefferson, Franklin, et al). Most of the Founding Fathers believed in
a benign and distant Creator, a distant "Watchmaker" or "Architect" that, after
creating all, retired to some corner of the cosmos and left the creation to
fend for itself. (Hence Franklin's famous aphorism "God helps those who help
themselves") It was not started, in any event, by Fundamentalist Christians,
or even Evangelical Christians. This country was founded on FREEDOM OF
CONSCIENCE, the Salem Witch Trials notwithstanding. So THINK before you
condemn other faiths. That is, if you have the facility to do so. REASONably
yours, MK-H.
--- TBBS v2.0
* Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744)
Msg#: 1505 *BULLETIN BOARD*
07/14/88 17:48:00 (Read 6 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: MICHELLE HASS (Rcvd)
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1406 (RE: WELCOME)
Michelle, where can I capture theese files of youre on the hate mail? I've got
EXTENSIVE archives on this myself. You might be interested in knowing that
there is some evidence of the Adams family being from a Druidic tradition
called the "dragon tradition." I've got the articles on that if you want them.
BB Rowan
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: Rock Island (on) Line - Newalla, Ok.- (405)391-9488 (1:147/3)
Msg#: 1638 *BULLETIN BOARD*
07/18/88 00:38:00 (Read 4 Times)
From: PHIL POWELL
To: MATTHEW DUNHAM
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1616 (RE: WELCOME)
Well, as a former "warlock" myself, I agree with you 100%! The whole thing is
nothing ore than control and manipulation. A lot of the covens manipulate your
emotions as well as what they also consider your "karma" so that you're a slave
to their every whim, and not only that, you find yourself completely UNABLE to
stop using your powers, that is, you use them when you don't want to! And I
could tell you some horrible things I used to see in my sleep while under the
power of witchcraft! UGH!
-* Rizz D00D *-
Gal 5:1!!!!
---
* Origin: +Hub of FISHNET+ the conference for born again Christians (Opus
Msg#: 1646 *BULLETIN BOARD*
07/19/88 18:36:05 (Read 4 Times)
From: MICHELLE HASS
To: PHIL POWELL
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1638 (RE: WELCOME)
Phil, if you were a so-called "warlock" (and I know no self-respecting male
Pagan who calls himself that save in jest) Then tell me: What tradition did you
follow? What did you do in your Circles? Did the name of "Satan" or "The
Devil" ever show up? Did you recite the Lord's Prayer backwards and/or conduct
your "sabbats" on the nude body of a woman? Did you kill little kids and drink
their blood? I'm sure that's what you tell your sanctimonious little BAC
friends now, don't you. In all my years of acquaintaince with various
non-Christian philosophies, and in my training in shamanic theory and practice,
I have yet to see "scary beasties" like you say you have. If you were a Gothic
("satanist") please do not say you were a Wiccan. Tell the truth. Explain
what you mean by "witchcraft". Then, and only then, can we debate without
simply throwing rhetoric around. MK-H
--- TBBS v2.0
* Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744)
Msg#: 1965 *BULLETIN BOARD*
07/22/88 02:46:00 (Read 2 Times)
From: PHIL POWELL
To: MICHELLE HASS
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1757 (RE: WELCOME)
Actually, I threw curses on people and caused one of them to die by a curse I
uttered once, developed ESP, and worshipped angels and stars. Practiced astral
projection and saw visions of demons in my room.
Sorry to disappoint you.
-* Rizz D00D *-
---
* Origin: +Hub of FISHNET+ the conference for born again Christians (Opus
Msg#: 1756 *BULLETIN BOARD*
07/20/88 15:43:46 (Read 5 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: PHIL POWELL
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1638 (RE: WELCOME)
Say WHAT???? Don't you even know that the word Warlock means "traitor" in Scots
gaelic, and no Witch would ever call himself that!!! If you saw all these
terrible things, how come you don't go to the police, put yourself in a witness
protection program and help the good guys nab the bad guys, huh? Also, every
Wiccan I ever met was vehemently against mind control in every form. As a
metter of fact, in the Georgian tradition, which I am an initiate in, we are
taught to question everyone, even our teachers. You are either lying, or you
were not a Witch, but in with a bunch of loonies.
--- TBBS v2.0
* Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744)
To: PHIL POWELL
Subj: RE: WELCOME
Public Message
01: That doesn't sound like Wicca, or any sort of Paganism or neo-Shamanism to
(9924)
02: me!!! Sounds more like the standard dilletante dabbling in "psychic
(9855)
03: phenomena" that is dangerous because the proper precautions aren't taken.
(9781)
04: So, you didn't answer my question...What Trad were you in? MK-H
Msg#: 1757 *BULLETIN BOARD*
07/20/88 15:47:10 (Read 6 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: MICHELLE HASS (Rcvd)
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1646 (RE: WELCOME)
Right on, Michelle!!! BB Sister. Rowan
--- TBBS v2.0
* Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744)
Msg#: 1966 *BULLETIN BOARD*
07/22/88 02:48:00 (Read 3 Times)
From: PHIL POWELL
To: ROWAN MOONSTONE
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1965 (RE: WELCOME)
Well, my friends taught me that a warlock was nothing more than a male witch
and that in order to perfect your natural powers you had to develop a fantasy
for them. Mine was to make myself appear and disappear (a real-time form of
astral projection!) (when I was llittle I wanted to make money appear. Then I
developed ESP and that's when the "mind control" began. They didn't tell me I'd
wind up being "taken over" by the "power". Boy am I glad I'm LOADED with power
now (a lot more than before)
-* Rizz D00D *-
---
* Origin: +Hub of FISHNET+ the conference for born again Christians (Opus
Msg#: 1969 *BULLETIN BOARD*
07/23/88 16:56:00 (Read 3 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: PHIL POWELL
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1966 (RE: WELCOME)
Phil,warlock is NOT a word that Witches use. The use of this word by people
that you were involved with only goes to show they were not Witches. I don't
know what they WERE into, but it wasn't Wicca. The only kind of "mind control"
we practice is control of our OWn minds.
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: Rock Island (on) Line - Newalla, Ok.- (405)391-9488 (1:147/3)
Msg#: 1970 *BULLETIN BOARD*
07/23/88 16:58:00 (Read 3 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: PHIL POWELL
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1969 (RE: WELCOME)
Sounds like you had a healthy dose of funny brown cigarettes too! Where do they
GET these wild stories??? The National Enquirer???
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: Rock Island (on) Line - Newalla, Ok.- (405)391-9488 (1:147/3)
Msg#: 2656 *MAGICKNET*
07/17/88 21:52:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: ALL
Subj: A WORD IN EDGEWISE
Well, I finally got to do something last Thursday that I've been absolutely
itching to do. The local talk radio show had a representative of Mike Warnke
ministries on to talk about some animal mutilations they found on an altar in
an island in eastern Okla. He went on about ritual child abuse and I'd jhust
had it. I called the station and talked on the air with him for about 15 min
and got to present my case for there being NO evidence for ritualistic child
abuse. He couldn't answer my statements at all! I have the tape if anyone wants
a copy of it. The whole show runs about 30 min. Just send me a blank tape if
you want it. I'm rather proud of it myself. Bb Rowan
---
* Origin: WeirdBase * St. Louis * 1-314-741-2231 * (Opus 1:100/523)
Msg#: 2681 *BULLETIN BOARD*
07/20/88 15:39:41 (Read 0 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: MICHELLE HASS
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2538 (SATAN IS JUDGED - WHO CARES?)
Oh, Michelle, do I agree with you!!1 I received a lovely notice from a
Christian sysop of a c net bbs here in OKC today. He said that though he was
Christian and I am a Pagan, we're both just people and if Russia and the US
got along like he and I, there would be no nuclear bomb threat. He's taken an
ENORMOUS amount of flak from other Christians for allowing me to run a Wicca
sub board on his board, but all in all, this man has shown me more of Christ
than all the other people I have known put together. ( I would have answered
you from lRock Island except Brother Matthew has forbidden me to speak to other
pagans in this area from his board. )BB Rowan
--- TBBS v2.0
* Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744)
Msg#: 2726 *MUNDANE*
07/17/88 01:23:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: FIONN MACCUMHAIL
Subj: THAT STRANGE ECHO
You don't know the half of it. I was in a lengthy conversation with Mathew
tonight and he told me that if I cannot talk to other Pagans on his board. I'm
only supposed to talk to Christians on that echo so I can learn the error of my
ways!!1 I couldn't believe it. He's cut my access so I can't post there, just
read, and he won't raise it again until I agree to follow his rules. Guess I'll
just have to play from Wierdbase or go out to Cult Monitor. Strange man if I
ever saw one!!! I'll send you a copy of the Irish Bibliography with the check
for the book. BB Rowan
---
* Origin: WeirdBase * St. Louis * 1-314-741-2231 * (Opus 1:100/523)
Msg#: 2761 *MUNDANE*
07/19/88 09:39:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: LIZ HAHN
To: ROWAN MOONSTONE
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2756 (RE: THAT STRANGE ECHO)
Dear Rowan,
> I'm only supposed to talk
> to Christians on that echo so I can learn the error of
> my ways!!1 I couldn't believe it. He's cut my access so
> I can't post there, just read, and he won't raise it again
> until I agree to follow his rules. Guess I'll just have
> to play from Wierdbase or go out to Cult Monitor. Strange
> man if I ever saw one!!!
I hope you Do hang in there and find a way to keep participating--not so much
to bang your head against the wall but for the opportunity to present
alternative thinking to those who may be open to it. While I am not eager to
post under the conditions that Matthew has laid down, I am encouraging him to
expand his rules a little (if not his thinking) for the good of the Echo.
If he doesn't, he may find himself shouting at the mirror all alone.
Aloha,
Liz
---
* Origin: Kauai1 - Aloha (Opus 1:161/414)
Msg#: 2763 *MUNDANE*
07/18/88 08:32:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: RUSS ANDERSON
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2201 (RE: CULT_WATCH ECHO)
Well, he's figured out what to do. Seems I was making too good an
impression on some folks. I've now been told that I may not converse
with other pagans in that area. I may only speak to other Christians
and Matthew, and then only so they can instruct me in the errors of
my ways and lead me to the true faith. Honest. I have it in print from
a chat session I had with Matthew. He dropped my access level to the
echo to read only until I agree to comply with his requirements. I think
I'm just gonna go out to Cult Monitor and participate from there. I'll be
Damned if I'm gonna be muzzled by that turkey when I'm being polite
and respectful and only trying to educate folks on the true nature
of my beliefs and religion. I'm NOT proselytizing, whatever he
may say. I was asked for some informationa and I tolk the guy I
had it and he could come byy the house to get it and ZAP, my access
got lowered Matthew seems to think that by allowing me to speak freely
on his board, he's giving time to the devil, and he says he can't do
that. Even claims to be proud of being so narrow minded. SHEESH!! what a
strange man. Even the other Fundies think he's overboard. BB Rowan
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4)
E-Mail Fredric L. Rice / The Skeptic Tank